I’ve seen post after post concerning England’s generally embarrassing performances for several years now.

I feel compelled to chime in as a somewhat neutral observer. IMHO, England’s “failures” really come down to the myopic expectations of the fans. I equate it to the recent “failures” of the U.S. basketball team.
Because the fans are knowledgeable, passionate, and very familiar with the players, they assume “their” national squad should be able to simply switch-on their highest level of skill and outperform their opponent every time they play. Eventually, as borne out by the U.S. basketball team, this continued perception yields 2 predictable results:

First, fans begin to view the gap between their particular team and the rest of the world as being greater than it actually is. The truth is, the gap in talent between the England MNT players and the Israeli players is NOTHING compared to the gap between the Israeli players and the hacks out at Sunday league. Yes I know, merely stating the obvious. Yet…somehow that fact seems to be lost on fans who expect England to dismantle Israel the way they would dismantle the Numpties of Eaton Bray.

Second, as the players increasingly adopt this myopic view, they begin to believe that they need only show up in order to beat the “lesser” teams. As such, “lesser” sides like Macedonia and Andorra can sometimes earn positive results by simply working harder than the elite teams are willing to work.

I think it is perfectly fair for fans to expect that England work hard and perform consistently. If that is your gripe with Gerrard, Lampard, etc then fair play to you.
Morevoer, fans should absolutely expect that England are capable of competing against any side in the world. Just remember, it is a funny old game. And, oh yes…U.S. 1-0 England!

how can the players inability to beat the likes of Israel, Northern Ireland, Macedonia the fault of the fans expectations?! the players themselves should expect to put these teams to the sword.

Michael Owen himself said in his newspaper column yesterday that Israel's best player, Yossi Benayoun would never get in the England team. yes, Owen was that arrogant. he may well be right, but you should not go out and say that in a public forum such as a newspaper column, it's disrespectful.

the point though is that the players are going out there and playing worse than they do at Premiership level - where there is also expectations. there are expectations of the Top 4 clubs' players, the manager and the fans expect them to get in the Champions League, but they still go out and deliver - what's the difference with England?

That's just it....
Given the performance of England over the past few years, I’m not sure I agree with Owen. Regular 3-goal drubbings of Andorra and Moldova can hardly be assumed anymore. Yet, instead of relishing today’s victory, I suspect most fans will wonder why it wasn’t 9-0.

Maybe that is just it, perhaps the gap between England [THE TEAM] and Macedonia, et al is actually not as great as the gap between United, Chelsea, etc. [THE TEAMS] and Sheffield, CAFC, etc.

so you're saying the likes of Macedonia are better than half of the Premiership? I can't say I agree with that!

Playing against countries such as Andorra should end in 9-0 drubbings.

Andorra had one full time professional footballer in their team ......... and he plays at the lofty level of the Spanish second division.

To therefore have to wait nearly an hour for a goal against them is simply not good enough.

I agree that, generally, the gap between national teams is less than what it used to be. For example, 10 years ago there were no Israelis playing in the Premiership. Now we have three of their team playing here.

.... but none of their players would get into any of the 'top' teams - maybe with the exception of Benayoun and Ben Haim who could possibly could be squad players.

For this reason alone we should be beating the likes of Israel quite comfortably. No-one is expecting 5,6,7 - nil hammerings as used to happen, but certainly the class of the quality of our players should be enough to win without too much trouble.

Unfortunately though, it seems that when we come up against these 'smaller' nations it is the opposition who play their hearts out and run their legs off whilst the England players too often look disinterested.

Personally I think it is a good thing Rooney is out of our next game - it will hopefully give someone like Defoe - although it will probably be Crouch - a chance to show McLaren just what he can do when he's given 90 minutes.

England should beat Israel by the odd goal - but Andorra? they should be hammered!

who was it earlier in the qualifying campaign that Germany hammered 13-0? that's how you dispose of someone.

a few outstanding performances at the back can change everything. Anyone can beat anyone else on any given day. Now sure you can't expect Andora to beat England but everyone rises their game to play England, everyone want to be the ones to beat them. McClarren should learn to not be so negative when playing smaller natiions. Teams like Israel and Andorra Macedonia Estonia will always try to put 8 men behind the ball and boot it up to the solo striker. So why does McClarren leave 4 at the back to mark a loan striker? You shoould not worry about losing againts these teams.

agreed.

it would be nice if we had a player with the qualities of a Franz Beckenbauer, someone who would play at the back, but when there was space to move into in midfield would step into it and exploit it. there is absolutely no one in world football of that ilk, mind you, so we shouldn't feel bad I suppose.

whenever an England defender 'marauds' forward, it looks like the proverbial fish out of water. like a 10 tonne wrestler trying to ballet dance. like a rottweiler trying to convincew you that actually, he's a swan. it doesn't happen.

in fact even the midfield is like that these days. it's like a disease or something, or maybe it's like wood rotting. if good wood gets too near to rotten wood it soon rots too, until all you have is soggy crap.

My apologies...I am doing a terrible job of making my point.

I am NOT saying that Macedonia are better than half the EPL teams. I'm saying that the top EPL teams are designed and built to dominate the "non-elite" teams in the EPL. That fact is borne out year after year. I'm just not sure that England's squad has been designed and built to dominate the "lesser" national sides.

Is England decidedly loaded with greater overall talent than national minnows? yes.

Is the England team necessarily designed and built to dominate them? IMHO, no.


I am NOT saying that the expectations of fans has caused players to play poorly. My point is only that I'm not sure I see a 3-0 result over Andorra as the "failure" that England fans see. I've come to expect it. Nearly everytime I watch England run out against a "lesser" side, I'm left wondering why the "lesser" side seemed more prepared to play England than vice-versa. These "bad" results simply don't suprise me anymore. That is all I meant.

I would love to see MacClaren sort it out.

I am with you now. I can see your point, for sure and there could very well be something to it. I'll get back to that point later in this post.

firstly, I don't think a 3-0 win against Andorra is a failure, as such, it's just the manner of the performance, and it's been this way since the Denmark disaster of last year, followed by the Northern Ireland disaster. the players have gone backwards, they appear to be unable to string passes together, and play as a team and they are generally bereft of ideas, and tactically bankrupt. this is not necessarily McClaren's fault, he has inherited a team that is rotting at the core for whatever reason and he has to put it right, if he has the time to do so. I think whoever the England manager is would have the same problem, unless there's a mass clear-out and a paving of the way for a complete rebuild for the future, with the young kids such as Micah Richards, Ben Foster, David Nugent and the like taking the country forward.

back to the points you made about the England teamnot being designed to dominate the lesser lights of the international world. I think you're right - but why do you think this is the case?

is it because, as I have hinted at in this post, that England currently do not play as a team?

is it tactical naivity? is it the creativity we lack that an on-song Gazza once provided? the key to unlocking defences when a team over-loads a defence. how can we go from destroyng Germany in Germany 5-1 to struggling to beat Andorra (taking 55 minutes to score against these minnows was embarrassing, no matter what the players say!) and Macedonia and Northern Ireland, etc.

there was a time when we'd put teams like San Marino to the sword. remember that game when the San Marino team went 1-0 up after 7 seconds?! eventually we mullered them 7-1! a battering that should be handed out to this type of team of part-timers.

against teams like Maccedonia estonia andorra israel we should go 3 CB's and 5 man midfield or even 3 upfront. 3-5-2 or 3-4-1-2 with the current squad this would have been what I ran.



-----------------------------Foster or Carson (robo is shite)

-----------------------Terry-----------------------Carragher
-----------------------------------------Rio
Lennon----------------Gerrard---------------Hargreaves-------------------------A.Cole
--------------------------------------Lampard
------------------------Rooney----------------------Defoe


If we are fully fit against weaker oppo I would do like this

---------------------------Foster/Carson
-----------------------------Terry
-----------------------Rio-----------Carragher
Lennon-----------Gerrard-------------Lampard/Hargreaves-------------J.Cole
------------------------------Rooney
--------------Owen/defoe---------------Crouch

I hate the 3-5-2/5-3-2 formation with a passion.

if we're playing 3 at the back against weaker opposition we might as well go 3-4-3!

if fully fit...


Foster

Micah Richards John Terry Rio Ferdinand

Aaron Lennon Steven Gerrard Owen Hargreaves Ashley Cole

Jermain Defoe Wayne Rooney Joe Cole


go out and push them back, if the opposition want to play with 8 defenders, make them use each and every one of 'em! attack the little b*stards!

Exactly. On paper, England should dispatch Moldova, Macedonia, and Andorra, etc. inside of 10 minutes with ease. Of course, Real Madrid cir. 2004-2006 "should" have dominated Spain and the CL. Chelsea "should" have dominated United this season.....

Egos be damned! Settle on a core tactical philosophy BUT then give each and every opponent due credit in fielding the right TEAM to match that particular opponent's style. MacClaren should stop presuming that he can trot out his 11 "best" players, force the "English" style of play, and beat any "lesser" team no matter what kind of tactics they face. That approach hasn't seemed to work for England...







or the U.S. Men's National Basketball team.

well I agree with you, except about Real Madrid and Chelsea, Chelsea have no right to 'dominate' Man United, as such. both have excellent teams! same goes with Real in Spain, Barca and Valencia and Sevilla this season all have good teams. there's no divine right, but that's not to say that all teams mentioned wouldn't expect to defeat the likes of Albacete or Tenerife, or Charlton Athletic or Watford. that's not to say they will - but 9 times out of 10, chances are they will...

And France SHOULD batter Lithuania.